I’ve been trained to believe that being part of a non-denominational church is best. That said, my church believes a lot of what the Nazarenes believe. One example happens to state that alcohol is bad. Even if we don’t say it aloud, we ask those in leadership to abstain and, if a leader shouldn’t do it, why should anyone else? We don’t limit ourselves to the King James version as many of the Baptist churches around town do– Thee, though, and adding “eth” to everything makes it all sound more poetic, but doesn’t communicateth well. We love the Holy Spirit, but you won’t see anybody at my church rolling around on the ground making us act in strange ways like some of the Pentecostal church people do.
We aren’t better than them, our beliefs just happen to be more Biblically-based and accurate.
By the way, liturgy is annoying and it’s clear when somebody doesn’t have it down right.
Aside from Jehovas Whitnesses and some other groups, we basically all agree that Jesus Christ is the son of God and with the exception of Christian Scientists and friends, we rely on Him for salvation. Adding doctrine of the Holy Spirit causes some division here and there. Next, we get to Biblical authority, doctrine of the church, tithing… and the list goes on longer than my or your attention span probably can handle.
I’m fine with there being denominations. We perceive divisions in the Body of Christ because there are. I don’t want to go to church with people who believe differently than I do, it just won’t work. I’d like to imagine that I’d stand up in the middle of a sermon and tell whomever that their truth isn’t exactly true… but then I’d just be a big fat jerk, wouldn’t I?
As Christians, we try to paint our world only using black and white. We quote verses at each other, trying to justify our stances on almost everything and punctuate our sentences with “… and thus sayeth the Lord.”
I’ve watched my friends struggle with questions about their church attendance, their love for beer, and even with roommates of the opposite sex. They didn’t know what was acceptable. I didn’t know either. I’ve had my own questions and at times have felt as though I was focusing my whole life around some lilliputian detail that probably has little significance.
But according to some, it had the potential to ruin my witness, make somebody else stumble, or send me to hell.
I realized this week that I’m alright not knowing everything. My world isn’t a cut-and-dried separation of truth and lies. Sometimes it feels like a knot and I can’t find the beginning or the end to begin to unravel it. Other times, it’s a jumble of pieces that desperately want to fit together but sometimes don’t know how. I believe it’s fine to struggle over decisions, because that at least indicates that it matters to me and I’m not being rash.
I believe truth is singular, but there may be varying expressions of it.
We have to separate all of those out from the lies or un-truths.
But we may find different expressions of our truth.
Sometimes
We have to see what works best for us.
I realize this sounds WAY to lax on everything. But there are gray areas in the Bible. We have to pray and see what God wants us to do. I think He'd prefer we talk to Him rather than build our witness through our own holy, pretentious efforts. Maybe I'm wrong, but this is what I'm seeing and feeling right now.
Very good blog Jake, especially your last comment. In fact, Glover and I had a spat over differing viewpoints a few weeks ago. Example: A male friend of mine from Alaska was coming through town very late and needed a place to crash for the night, Dylan wasn't coming home from AK til the next day and well, the time frame of my friend's arrival was a little inconvenient to find another suitable place to house him…aka find a guy's house for him to stay at. I, on one hand, have no problem allowing a male friend stay with me while visiting (a boyfriend is different) because I have been around guys long enough to not feel uncomfortable or awkward sharing spaces with them. My roommate on the other hand, did not share my viewpoint that there is nothing wrong with that. (And warning: there is discretion in everything mind you) I share that story simply because, neither of our views were wrong (in our opinion), yet we had different convictions on the matter. I think it takes a level of A) seeing what God's word says on the subject and B) the convictions that God's placed in your life. Sometimes, I feel that God has different convictions in our lives because of what we're called to do or because of the gifts He's given us.
I think our world needs good, responsible examples of things that have been abused- let me clarify. Drinking is such an abused substance in our culture, the main purpose for many people is to get drunk. But if a Christian wants to have a beer, as long as their motive isn't to get drunk, there shouldn't be anything wrong with it. Again, discretion is key…surroundings and certain people should be taken into account. But I think something like that, can be used as an example of responsible drinking…that's just me though…not much of a drinker anyway. Okay, I'm done…great post Jake!
No I like it, and I know what you mean. Could it get taken the wrong way? Sure. But isn't that even part of the point. We will never be able to do, or be all the things that will leave everyone around us with a sweet pleasent taste of who Christ is, in fact the very thing that helps one person could be the death of another.
That is why God made us differently, to effect the people that only we can. I'm right there with you jake.
Glover, you've always had your head on straight. I greatly appreciate that. I'm glad that your apartment is apparently reading my blog tonight! 🙂 We have to be wise about what we do, but at the same time, I genuinely believe there are multiple ways to live out a single truth. That's ONE reason why we have denominations- they aren't wrong, those people aren't going to hell, they just see a truth differently than we do. Haven't we heard God described as a diamond, with different sides?
Anyway, thanks for commenting. It's like pay for bloggers, that is, until we get ads on our sites. 😉
Funny thing….neither Glove nor myself knew the other was commenting or reading your blog! She was at the BSU library and I was at home…coincidence? I think not 🙂
Britt! I couldn't agree more! I think that Christians run away from things we've failed at in the past because we're afraid of failing now. Why can't we engage those elements we've done poorly in with the idea of later conquering them? I'm sorry, but sure… if you can't have a beer without getting drunk, then maybe stay away. but why not tell people about your problem and see if you can overcome any addiction and treat it as normal? We do that with sex, don't we? NO young man who was a sex-craving pervert in the past is expected to get married then NOT hit that with his wife… so why can't the same be true for beer?
And the guy staying at your apartment? If you had it out for him, that be one thing. But I'd imagine you had no interest in him whatsoever, so why not let him crash on your couch? (Just make sure Glover doesn't walk out in the living room at O-dark-thirty and scare him!)
It's the appearance of evil that we're worried about, rather than the practice of wisdom. We describe the former as being wise, but I think it's living life completely unengaged from things that could help us grow! I mean, I guess that isn't ALWAYS true, but it isn't entirely wrong, either.
Not knowing everything is part of the whole faith…walk? Run? Dragging behind? The more I hear messages from pastors of other denominations (I use that term loosely), the more I find out I don't know. The more I question my own churchy upbringing. But you're right, Jake. We just have to see what works for us, and even at my age, I'm still figuring that out. I know God welcomes our questions.
I haven't seen the word "lilliputian" for years. Pure awesome. Hope I can figure out a sentence to use it in today.
Candy, it's definitely a good word. I'm glad to hear this doesn't ever stop. I know several people who really do come across as knowing it all, having absolutely no questions when it comes to God, and I'm astounded! Either their faith is tons greater than mine, OR their pride is equally large. I'm just not sure.
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Wow, you went "there"! You're a brave man, Jake Lee! But I'm glad someone is talking about these things:) Let's face it, as self proclaimed "Christ-followers", we are under the microscope by a world that wants to SEE what a life living out the unbelievable, incomprehensible notion of GRACE looks like. And not only by those that have not yet experienced this GRACE, but also by those that have tasted it a bit, and are hungry for more. We are, for the most part, all visual creatures and can comprehend concepts, ideologies, etc. when they are practically lived out in the context of this thing called LIFE. So, with this, comes the expectancy of great responsibility to living out a clear picture of the gospel of GRACE. People don't want to just know you are a Christian, they want to see how you respond to real-life situations & circumstances they might find confusing or find their conscious telling them might be "wrong" (1 Cor. 8:10 MSG)…which is why it is so important for us to live outside the four-walls of the church and outside our caverns of like-minded believers, but I believe that is a different blog post altogether:)
So, this is our test. We have received the gift of GRACE, we know of the unfailing love of a generous God, we have even experienced freedom for the bondage of the law and of the grips of a works-based faith. We've experienced it first hand. But what does this all LOOK like? So, it becomes more of an opportunity to the RESPONSIBILITY of showing others how to live out practically the gospel of GRACE. And the funny thing is, we can't do it by making a list of do's & dont's for ourselves or others, we do it by getting to know GRACE more, and letting our salvation work itself out in our lives.
So the one statement you made that has me thinking the most is, "Sometimes, we have to see what works best for us." With this idea of RESPONSIBILITY to others to show a practical picture of the GRACE we know, I don't think we necessarily get to. 1 Corinthians 8 explains this notion of responsibility in the context of a believers response regarding meat that has been offered up to an idol…huh? Doesn't make the most sense in the context of our culture, but I can definitely see the parallels to other controversial topics you brought up like drinking, roommates of the opposite sex, or trading Garbage Pail Kids cards (oh wait, I that was one I added. Remember those?:)
So here's what happens with the American Idol meat in 1 Cor. 8:4-13 (MSG)…I've added in the more relevant cultural reference of going to a bar, just for an example.
"Some people say, quite rightly, that idols have no actual existence, that there’s nothing to them, that there is no God other than our one God,5 that no matter how many of these so-called gods are named and worshiped they still don’t add up to anything but a tall story.6 They say—again, quite rightly—that there is only one God the Father, that everything comes from him, and that he wants us to live for him. Also, they say that there is only one Master—Jesus the Messiah—and that everything is for his sake, including us. Yes. It’s true.
7 In strict logic, then, nothing happened to the meat when it was offered up to an idol. It’s just like any other meat. I know that, and you know that. But knowing isn’t everything. If it becomes everything, some people end up as know-it-alls who treat others as know-nothings. Real knowledge isn’t that insensitive.
WE NEED TO BE SENSITIVE TO THE FACT THAT WE'RE NOT ALL AT THE SAME LEVEL OF UNDERSTANDING IN THIS.
Some of you have spent your entire lives eating “idol meat,” and are sure that there’s something bad in the meat that then becomes something bad inside of you. An imagination and conscience shaped under those conditions isn’t going to change overnight.8 But fortunately God doesn’t grade us on our diet. We’re neither commended when we clean our plate nor reprimanded when we just can’t stomach it.
9 But God does care when you use your freedom carelessly in a way that leads a fellow believer still vulnerable to those old associations to be thrown off track.
10 For instance, say you flaunt your freedom by going to a banquet {BAR} thrown in honor of idols, where the main course is meat sacrificed to idols {$1 SHOTS}. Isn’t there great danger if someone still struggling over this issue, someone who looks up to you as knowledgeable and mature, sees you go into that banquet {BAR}? The danger is that he will become terribly confused—maybe even to the point of getting mixed up himself in what his conscience tells him is wrong.11 Christ gave up his life for that person. Wouldn’t you at least be willing to give up going to dinner {THE BAR} for him—because, as you say, it doesn’t really make any difference? But it does make a difference if you hurt your friend terribly, risking his eternal ruin!12 When you hurt your friend, you hurt Christ. A free meal here and there isn’t worth it at the cost of even one of these “weak ones.”13 So, never go to these idol-tainted meals if there’s any chance it will trip up one of your brothers or sisters."
I guess I've embraced this concept even more since being a parent. I have the RESPONSIBILITY to my 2 (soon to be 3) young children to make choices & show them a lifestyle that clearly proves the concept of GRACE. Because of this grace, I've experienced freedom…but because of my children, I don't exercise certain freedoms to not confuse them or "mix up" what they're developing consciences tell them is wrong. Scientifically, their frontal cortex's (part of the brain responsible for reasoning & impulse control) will not be fully developed until after adolescence…meaning anything they see me do in moderation, they will most likely do in excess during their teenage years or sooner. My grace-given strengths should never compromise their natural weaknesses.
As it should be with "younger" believers…that we should all be surrounding ourselves with, correct? And thank God that He has given me leaders to look up to, to watch their lifestyles closely as I continue to learn how to practically live out the concept of GRACE in my life. And the most amazing part of living in a GRACE-FILLED community, is that when those leaders stumble or I stumble (which inevitably happens to some degree), we get to respond with transparency, forgiveness, and the opportunity to practically live out GRACE. Which, again, is probably another different blog post.
Sorry to be so long…love your blog, by the way!
Very well stated there Jen. I really enjoyed reading this.
This was one of my favorites. The best part was "Sometimes we have to see what works best for us." The way our family, friends, acquaintances, significant others, and pastors do things aren't always going to be the way WE need to do them. We need direction, sure. A great friend of mine said, "We have changed our culture so much that when we go to church we are told when to sit down, stand up, lift your hands, worship, clap, pray, tithe, get in a small group, etc…..we've gotten to the point where we can't even make our own decisions"…..the list could go on and on.
Now do I believe we need people to help us in getting active in our journey? Yes. But I also believe we must get people to the point where they can distinguish what God is telling them……for THEMSELVES. Isn't that whole reason the veil was torn? So that we could all have a relationship with the Holy Spirit? Not so there could still be a mediator in between the two. By no means am I against spiritual authority, or natural authority for that matter. I simply want to continue that personal relationship with Jesus, and not feel like I have to vicariously live it out through someone else…….or else I'm "not in the will of God." Great comments, everyone!
Dust, you're entirely right. Jesus is the only priest we need. He's the only mediator between God and ourselves. Truthfully, all we have to do is listen to Him and we're good. I think that's clearly easier said than done, 2,000 years of people struggling to live out their faith shows that. I think I'm just at a place where I need to examine EVERYTHING I've been taught. At school, work, church, from friends and movies. I need to know what I believe is what I should believe and not just something I've been sold.
Thanks for the comment man!!!! Love ya!
Jen, I love that you wrote a book for a response! If I would have thought this out more, I would have included this verse.
Now the Bereans were of more noble character than the Thessalonians, for they received the message with great eagerness and examined the Scriptures every day to see if what Paul said was true. (Acts 17:11)
Paul wrote 13 books of the New Testament after the most radical transformation and salvation we've ever seen, and yet these people searched the Word to make sure that he wasn't feeding them a load of crap. It's entirely commendable– and something we should all practice on a more regular basis. We should not only ask ourselves, "What do I believe?" but we have to examine the motivation or logic behind it, as well.
I'm at a place where I'm wondering how much of what we practice comes about as a cultural remnant from another time… or if it is significant, why? My examples are the easy ones. Alcohol is always going to be a question the church has to answer, and it will be answered in different ways as we go through different seasons. I suppose I'm just going through another phase where I'm asking questions to make sure that I legitimately own my faith and all the actions, beliefs and attitudes that accompany it.
Something I need to always remind myself of is that no man is an island. We live out our faith in the context of the community that is the Body of Christ and my decisions don't only impact myself, but have far-reaching (I'm flattering myself with that one) consequences as well. That implies that I can't only live by my own convictions, but I'm not sure if I believe that or not. I think there's got to be a level of balance there, right?
We need friends like you though who will allow us to ask questions, but also do everything they can to speak truth to us. Questions can have wrong answers, and thankfully there are faithful peers who don't mind telling us if they think we're wrong. As long as it's done in love, it's most likely to be received, so thanks again, friend!
"I suppose I’m just going through another phase where I’m asking questions to make sure that I legitimately own my faith and all the actions, beliefs and attitudes that accompany it."
I hope you (and I) are always living in this "phase" of sincerely desiring to own our faith, asking questions, and growing closer to the embodiment of true grace, Jesus. I definitely agree that we will never know everything and we should never stop asking. I'm thankful for the "gray areas" that keep us growing.
"We live out our faith in the context of the community that is the Body of Christ and my decisions don’t only impact myself, but have far-reaching (I’m flattering myself with that one) consequences as well. That implies that I can’t only live by my own convictions, but I’m not sure if I believe that or not. I think there’s got to be a level of balance there, right?"
As my pretend, adopted little brother-from-another-mother, my prayer for you is that you WILL have far-reaching impact…I believe in you and all that God has up his white-angelic style-choir robe sleeve for you! As you seek, knock, question, search, discuss, debate, and soul-search, my prayer is that you do grow closer to grace, that you own your faith, and that you realize there's a world waiting to hear what you have to say and see what you will do. And as you are given freedom through the continuous revelation of grace, as you get the "go-ahead" from the Holy Spirit on your list of convictions and do's & don'ts, that as you realize what "works for you"…that you'll also realize not every freedom is given to be acted upon. And your choosing not to exercise certain freedoms (for the benefit of other believers) speaks louder of the grace in your life than choosing to do them.
Sorry to get all cheesy, graduation speech on you…I'm blaming it on the prego hormones!
Wow. Some great conversation here. All I can say is that nothing (including the Gospel) is idiot proof. That's why the first I read James I thought it completely contradicted what I read in John. Because I wasn't deep enough in my understanding to grasp what James was talking about. Now, it's one of my favorite books in the bible and it makes complete sense.
As I attempt to live my life as a Christian, I do (or don't do) things out of love and gratefulness for Jesus, whose debt I could never possibly repay. I get it wrong sometimes, we all do, but as long as we put Love above religion, I think we're on the right track.
Kathy, you completely nailed it with "As long as we put Love above religion, I think we're on the right track."
I love nothing more than seeing people come around to support and uplift each other in times of questioning and doubt. It's even better when there's sin involved because then we're incredibly Christ-like as we don't reject them but draw nearer and show them His love!
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